For Sale, Wanted or to Hire For Sale Free to a good home

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  • #3143 Reply
    Anonymous

    Hi everyone
    I have two Gloucester Oldspot sows that are now just over three years old , I’ve had them since they were weaned and they’ve been pets ever since . They live outside in a pen so not house pets , I’m not that soft . They’ve been fed on a mix of pignuts , rolled oats and just about anything else we had as waste , but my circumstances are changing and I need to move to the city for work so need to re-home them . I think they would make excellent breeding pigs for a stockholder as I’m not keen on them going for the dinner plate , so does anyone know of someone that might take them . I have all the holding number details and other official paperwork for them but I haven’t tagged them , yes I know it’s naughty , but if anyone is interested in a couple of healthy , fully grown sows , in South Lincolnshire area , please step forward
    Many thanks

    #6184 Reply
    Anonymous

    According to the ‘Animal By-Products Regulations 2005’ it is an offence to feed “just about anything else we had as waste” to pigs due to disease implications eg Foot & Mouth, Swine Fever etc.

    Such a lax attitude to the laws of the land should be strongly condemned, such legislation has been put in place to safeguard the health of ALL our livestock.

    #6185 Reply
    Anonymous

    Unless you already know each other and this is a continuation of a private dialogue, that’s a pretty aggressive response to a throw-away line used by vast numbers of pig owners! In context, I took that phrase to mean what we all do in terms of garden and vegetable waste, particularly as MissEllie is clearly clued up about the regulations relating to pig-keeping.

    Certainly the law of the land must be observed, but I think there is also something along the lines of “innocent until proven guilty” in the concept. If you’re really concerned that there is a major breach of the regulations, Fenris, why don’t you ask first and shoot later?! Otherwise we’ll frighten off all first-time posters, as they’ll be nervous of attracting censure and ridicule.

    #6186 Reply
    Anonymous

    MissEllie, are the girls birth-notified or registered? Have they bred before?

    #6187 Reply
    Anonymous

    quote:


    Originally posted by fenr1s

    According to the
    ‘Animal By-Products Regulations 2005’ it is an offence to feed “just about anything else we had as waste” to pigs due to disease implications eg Foot & Mouth, Swine Fever etc.

    Such a lax attitude to the laws of the land should be strongly condemned, such legislation has been put in place to safeguard the health of ALL our livestock.


    As has already been noted , your comment is a little aggresive and unwarranted , they happen to enjoy all sorts of food and as the bones from the local butchers helps to keep thier teeth clean , why not

    I have been contacted by someone with a bit more common sense than you and arrangements have been made to collect them soon , so thanks everyone , hopefully my problem is dealt with

    #6188 Reply
    GOS
    Participant

    MissEllie is seemingly leaving the world of pig keeping but for the benefit of anyone else reading these messages, I cannot emphasise strongly enough how dangerous and illegal it is to feed any form of animal waste to pigs without exception. The easiest way to start another outbreak of Foot & Mouth Disease or Swine Fever is to ignore this simple rule. Butchers’ waste bones clearly come into this category.

    #6189 Reply
    Anonymous

    I think it needs to be spelt out in more detail than that, GOS – I find “animal waste” a difficult term. The slice of ham which allegedly started an out-break of swine fever when tossed carelessly over a fence into a pig field was not “waste” as it was provided for human consumption. Is whey from a dairy animal waste? Can I feed ailing pigs on bread (containing animal fat) and milk (animal product)? What about adding an egg?

    I find it a very difficult area; the various charts produced by different organisations haven’t simplified it enough for me in the daily domestic situation: I still find myself asking whether I can legally chuck a bucket of potato peelings (kitchen waste) over the fence to the pigs.

    A really simple, clear explanation on this site would be a great help, and a good reference point – possibly also downloadable as a leaflet. We really need soemthing clear and graphic for both ourselves and the well-intentioned people who want to make sometimes unsuitable offerings to our pigs.

    #6190 Reply
    GOS
    Participant

    Chloe

    I sympathise with you about the complexity of the issue. For anyone who is unsure, I suggest they go to http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/id-move/pigs/pdf/new_owner_guide.pdf which can be simply printed off and is a useful guide for anyone to keep handy.

    Basically it says that anything that comes out of a kitchen, domestic or commercial, cannot be fed to pigs so in order to be able to feed potato peelings, you would need to sit and peel them somewhere other than the kitchen.

    The complications arise when you come to the small number of exceptions, and this was better addressed, in my opinion, in the earlier version of this document which is no longer available. Milk is straight forward if it comes from your farm.

    The second exception ‘Former foodstuffs other than catering waste food from kitchens etc (see above) containing rennet, melted fat, milk or eggs but where these materials are not the main ingredient’ leaves some doubt as to interpretation. The explanation in the earlier version gave you ‘e.g. biscuits, bread, cakes, chocolate, pastry, sweets etc.’ and arising from ‘bakeries, distributors, processing and packing plants, retail outlets, but only where meat is not used or handled or where strict HACCP procedures are in place.’

    Personally, I would suggest that pig keepers maintain a strict code that nothing that has been in their kitchen or anyone else’s may go anywhere near the pigs. Vegetable waste straight from the garden is fine. Vegetable wast from a greengocer ditto but not if it is a farm shop also selling meat or even pork pies.

    If you do want to look at the exception and source waste from a bakery, make sure that there is no possible cross contamination from pies containing meat, pizzas, sausage rolls etc. IF IN DOUBT, walk away from it and stick to properly prepared pig food sourced from a feed merchant.

    I hope this helps
    Richard

    PS Chloe – I know Defra don’t rule in Scotland but I believe that the rules apply across the UK.

    #6191 Reply
    Anonymous

    Amazing [IMG]http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c359/trevera25/Smileys/thmutley-1.gif[/IMG] there are so many people with the book of DEFRA shoved so far up where the sun don’t shine , they seem unable to see logic and common sense [IMG]http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c359/trevera25/laugh.gif[/IMG] get a life folks , it was a joke and all the sensible people on here know it . There is no way I would feed butchers waste to a pig [IMG]http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c359/trevera25/laugh.gif[/IMG] but the laws were brought in as a knee jerk reaction to the F&M outbreak and do nothing to protect stock from the real cause of it . Pigs will eat whatever takes thier fancy and if they catch a rat as it runs through , what are you going to do . Take it off them ? . I don’t think so [IMG]http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c359/trevera25/laugh.gif[/IMG] so let’s keep this quoting chapter and verse of the regulations out of this please [IMG]http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c359/trevera25/Animated_Kiss.gif[/IMG]

    #6192 Reply
    GOS
    Participant

    MissEllie

    I am very pleased to receive your reassurances. However, had the message remained on screen for all and sundry to read then it could well have had the effect of encouraging others to follow suit.

    Incidentally, it was not a knee-jerk reaction to the 2001 FMD crisis. Food waste was banned as feed to pigs in the early 1970s following an epidemic of Swine Vesicular Disease – the only exception being licensed swill feeders who had to cook such waste for minimum periods to maintain their licence. Not unnaturally there were fewer and fewer such operators remaining who were willing to follow this regime and all that changed in 2001 was that the licences were withdrawn and no swill feeding was permitted at all.

    #6193 Reply
    Anonymous

    Thanks, Richard, that’s not a bad little guide book (I hadn’t come across it before, as we tend to have to stick with the SEERAD website).

    I peel my potatoes and pod my peas on the doorstep (in communication with the pigs) so that’s all right. I’m still not happy about the “melted fat,” though – I’ve just had a fairly disastrous lardy cake experiment, and though I am sure the pigs would like it, it doesn’t seem appropriate to me.

    It is a pity that the older version didn’t survive; it sounds clearer and more straightforward to me.

    PS: MissEllie – and there was I, visualising your pigs gnawing at large shin bones, drinking out of skulls …. [}:)]

    #6200 Reply
    Anonymous

    Maybe I was aggressive, maybe I have got the rulebook shoved where the sun doesn’t shine : BUT until you have experienced the devastation that FMD brings, the silence of a culled farm, the constant smell from the pyres, how people you know have such a bad nervous breakdown that they will NEVER work again or drop dead from the stress. Until you have seen all of these things (and more!) don’t judge & don’t make fatuous jokes! Oh and by the way the 2000 Swine Fever outbreaks origin was never proven & a discarded ham sandwich IS classed as an animal by product!

    Could I remind everyone that the rules on feeding kitchen waste also apply to chickens

    #6210 Reply
    Anonymous

    That’s why I find the classifications hard – the ham wasn’t a waste product at the moment the human took a bite out of the sandwich; two seconds later, when he or she decided not to eat any more, it was waste and thus an animal by-product (per the DEFRA definition). The ham was presumably equally dangerous to a passing pig throughout the whole three second period. The important factor for communicating to people who might chuck sandwiches about is surely not whether it was waste or a by-product, but that it was “meat.”

    And I do remain concerned about feeding bakery products which might contain lard from who-knows-where, which must presumably be similarly risky (I just don’t know enough to understand what risks are removed by rendering treatment).

    It would be so much easier – particularly when talking to well-wishers who want the pleasure of feeding our pigs – if we had straightforward statements, preferably posters, leaflets, whatever, attractively produced, simplifying it down to something such as “fruit and vegetables only” and explaining why. This could include something at the bottom to say “there are certain exceptions where mass waste from processes such as…. can safely be fed, but these are carefully controlled to ensure there is no risk.”

    At the moment, we still have people with war-time recollections of pig bins and general country ways, and it is hard to convey the message convincingly. People like giving the pigs treats! (We did know a pig that apparently enjoyed tuna sandwiches on week days, and salmon on Sundays. I wish someone would do the same for me.)

    Richard kindly sent a copy of the old DEFRA guidance book; also I downloaded the new one. The local Animal Health people are concerned about this issue, and I am hoping to get them to produce a Scottish version in conjunction with SEERAD. We might get something which we could use at pig sites from this exercise. We’ll let you know!

    Thanks to both Miss Ellie and Fenris for prompting me into rattling a few cages!

    #6211 Reply
    stephen booth
    Participant

    Fruit and veg for pigs . Well Chloe if this is purchased through the front door of the shop and for human consumption that seems fine. What if its from the “waste” bin and “trimmings” and out of the back door ? Is that then a waste product and seemingly not fit for human consumption…. …but good enough for the pigs as they are just pigs ? Indeed most millers will use waste bread in their formulations to the addition of the odd piece of plastic showing on nuts these days.
    If you feed waste apples that have gone a little “furry” 999 times out of 1000 there is no problem . The other occasion it has been known for pigs to have ears drop off a la French Revolution.
    My point is that its about being sensible when it comes to feeding your stock . An old old saying is as true today as whenever it was first said. “LOOK AFTER YOUR STOCK AND THEY WILL LOOK AFTER YOU”

    #6212 Reply
    Anonymous

    Well Ok, I admit that my pigs get the pick of the fruit bowl and I eat the furry ones! [:p]

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