18th January 2011 at 9:22 am #4774
On two other frums that i know of Accidental Smallholder & River Cottage there is a debate raging against the new charges issued yesterday by the BPA.
AS the GOS is the largest breed the BPA stands to make a fortune out of us GOS breeders. What do we all think about the new charges?
Makes me want to keep Lops!!!! At least they had the sense to stay out of the BPA!.
What help did the BPA give us when we’ve been fighting Waitrose or going for the TSG accreditation,
signed Devils Advocate!!18th January 2011 at 10:31 am #9364
I can appreciate that their costs have gone up so they may need to raise the fees slightly but I think the new proposals seem very expensive particularly in the current economic climate. I will have gone from paying £60 to £125 a year which is more that double. I also think it looks like they are going to charge for registrations of animals I sell or use to increase my herd although the wording is unclear as it says, “Additional registrations for sales or herd expansion and other pedigree forms may be charged” The word “may” does not make it clear exactly what they will be charging but if that is the case then I will also have to pay £6.50 for each animal I sell for breeding or use to increase my herd. I don’t really see how they have worked out the sliding scale of fees either. I can see that this may put people off of keeping registered stock which would be a shame as that would make it difficult to see what the overall national picture is for numbers of pigs being kept.
Georgina18th January 2011 at 11:04 am #9366
agree totally, ours if we’d had our sows like last year then it would have doubled for us, that’s a couple of piglets per year extra!! we did plan to get a couple more to have differing bloodlines but now we’re reconsidering and thinking of reducing the sows even further, seems can have as many boars as want though, it’s sows they want the numbers of for your payment amount!! To put it down from having 10 sows on the full membership to 2 for the same cash is ridiculous, how can they justify reducing it by that many sows, why didn’t they just up the membership for 10 sows to say £70 this year then £80 next year and a max of 50p per form for the individual one’s, people won’t complain if is done little by little but when whack a huge great amount on is when they go up in arms, especially when as you say, when it comes to fighting the big boys they seem to hide behind the couch!!!
and it’s all well and good too saying will have to buy transfers for example for small breeders who just want notes per pig, but have you also noticed it’s a minimum of 5 I think, so if you want ONE for transfering your registered animal…you could be left with 4 for goodness knows how long until sell another registered one – if you sell another registered one, not like they mention getting a refund if don’t use them in say 12 months is it!!
Their costs may have gone up, but are the BPA blissfully unaware there’s a recession going on that’s set to get WORSE this year not better, our feed’s already up over £1 per bag! folks will go into breeding unregistered or crossbreds with this added on top, we’ve considered getting a couple of tamworth sows ourselves and yes being serious!!
With rising feed costs and everything else we’re already at the point where we don’t make a thing on ours as is, this is just another nail in the coffin, and to think we were taking pride on breeding stocky well grown pigs, we should have just bred 3 legged crossbreds instead and saved the hassle, or unregistered just for meat! [:(]
And the other thing that’s naffed me is they still took the £60 off us on the dot, but have restricted our online account why….because we haven’t done a direct debit form that’s it!! well maybe we would have if you’d notified us of it, never received a word, first knew of it, they said a week ago would sort it out, still waiting, phoned yesterday ‘will sort that out for you today’ guess what…still waiting – gahhhh! [:(!]
So now, I have to drag my butt out of bed (I work nights and weird shifts in a care home not exactly 9-5 job!) to be able to phone them in the day to get a form stuck on my membership so can bn/register/transfer my animals, it’s gone from being easy to do on the site, to a right pain in the rear end as well as added costs of having to phone them too!!
And I agree, their wording is sketchy at best and is open to all kinds of ‘extras’ being charged for, I want a plain in full directory of just what the yearly subs are paying for, that’s a simple request.
rant over, apologies! [:D]18th January 2011 at 11:49 am #9368
Think the phone lines to the breed reps are going to be busy given the strength of feeling about this and i think a lot of pigs will be killed off on this next breed survey return especially if the BPA is going to use the info returned to make up your charge.18th January 2011 at 2:27 pm #9369
that’s the other thing, we have two boars that were mis-registered, we aren’t using them as boars they’re for meat and were bought in, should have been kept as bn’d only but the breeder accidentally registered them, we can’t remove them from our total but we can’t kill them until they’ve gone obviously so they’re still on our total, as is a sow that is sold for breeding but hasn’t been collected, so she’s on our survey total now…but she isn’t if you get me, so we’ve got 3 more pigs than we actually have got so we may get charged for them, the two boars are going for meat in the next month I am not paying for them to be on my list sorry!!
there’s a lot of things they could improve on to make us feel like we’re getting something, but I doubt they will, sadly I think this will mean folks reducing their herds, breeding unregistered stock or crossbred’s and the bpa will sit there wondering why [:p]19th January 2011 at 1:27 pm #9372
Though I am not a GOS Breed Rep I am one elected by the British Saddlebacks.For some time the BPA has been looking to balance on-line membership with “paper” membership. There is also the element of some herds under paying as currently there is a different rate for different size herds , and people tend to forget to upgrade !.
One undesireable element to on-line membership has been the free element of herd book entry where so many new members enter ALL pigs born into the herd book , rather than just Birth Notify all , and herd book enter the best which meet Breed Standard
However,I can inform you that all these charges are news to your Breed Reps also, and they have benn given neither prior warning , or explanation to the process of thought that has resulted in the new rates proposed. That is where I have my main complaint as a Breed Rep . Breed Reps are elected to serve the general membership of their particular breed . The BPA has put a bigger work load on to Breed Reps and yet they give them NO information to either explain or help the members they have been elected to serve.
I suggested to one member who rang me with a complaint yesterday to contact the BPA Chairman directly for any answers as I was unable to help and was embarrased to tell him such .
Mr Alan Rose , Chair of the BPA 0146023445319th January 2011 at 1:32 pm #9373
yep, I hold my hands up and I’ll admit my first error with first litter was I registered the lot, then realised my mistake – new keeper syndrome, I BN mine and stock good to register if sold for breeding gets registered, the rest don’t, that’s terrible they haven’t even told the breed reps why they’ve done this, especially as you’re the one’s who’ll take the brunt of questions from disgruntled pig keepers!! [:(!]
I got an email telling me my online account won’t be active until the end of February when the online survey is done, by then my pig numbers will be wrong but never mind, I wonder if I’ll get a refund for two months of having to mess about when am paying full whack for online services…no..didn’t think so [;)]19th January 2011 at 1:52 pm #9374
After reading the messages posted I thought I would add what happened to me. I too am a fully paid up member to the BPA and was very annoyed when may account was put on stop to the online services just after paying my full membership. The worst part was the fact that there was no warning. As I am in full time employment and work long hours I need to access the services to notify the BPA at anytime of the day, as office hours are not convenient to me. When I rang the BPA the ladies were very helpful and do feel sorry for them as the are taking all the flack. I have spoken the Marcus directly and told him how I felt and do think it’s all been handled quite badly, no one is going to fill in a direct debit form without knowing the full details first. Regards Sue James19th January 2011 at 8:16 pm #9375
This link may help explain the current position19th January 2011 at 11:01 pm #9376
I have seen only today myself that they have now posted some information on the site. But when all the changes kick off the online services which people require to allocate forms was locked out. All they had to do is to send a letter out first informing people that they needed to call the office or even just to have mentioned it in their Christmas email they sent out. Sue20th January 2011 at 2:01 pm #9378
I agree with Sue. What they should have done was to send out a letter telling people that the subscriptions were changing and not just lock on line accounts so that you only found out about the subscription increase when you phoned to find out why. I think it would not have caused such an issue if they had done this.21st January 2011 at 10:03 am #9381
that’s my point too, it’s the total lack of communication but they still managed to take our insufficient funds out of the account though, nicely done!
I was told the second returned my DD form that my online account would be reactivated the next day!!! then when did just that I’m told it won’t be until the end of February when the survey is ‘hopefully completed’ so what if it’s not then, have to wait longer, they can shove it for taking any cash until they provide the services that they’re taking that cash for! And why didn’t they say that to me then, why did they go all cloak and dagger for the DD form, don’t they realise in their infinate wisdom that it takes two seconds to go to my online bank account…and cancel their authorisation to take money, derrr! [:p]
and if we decide to go on ‘pay as you go’ then I want my £60 back pronto! [:p]21st January 2011 at 10:08 am #9382
I notice also on that ‘update’ that nowhere does it say what these ‘may be charged’ things that folks are worried about if make changes to their herd that are said about actually are, so they’re still dodging the question on that one, nicely done!
and I still think that reducing the £60 membership from being able to have up to 10 sows to you’re allowed to have 2 for the same price is a drastic reduction, most people have 3 sows to make it worthwhile to breed pedigree in the first place, so actually I’d say most people WILL be paying an extra £10 – and goodness knows what else extra when they ‘make changes to their herd or sales’!
it’s not just the fact they’ve done this that has upset me, but the fact that they are still being very vague and totally unclear on just what is going to be charged for!!21st January 2011 at 7:01 pm #9385
i do the pay as you go for my herd which according to Marcus is still an option but look out as they are going to be looking at this next!23rd January 2011 at 7:34 pm #9391
We’d heard the saddleback society may be pulling out of the BPA, I will add that this is only what heard, we’re not in the saddleback society (although love the breed and would love a couple of them), it shows the unease and upset this is all causing I think, maybe the Gloucestershire old spots should make a firm stand in all this too, we’d be willing to stand up and be counted, I don’t think that people should be held to ransom by a governing body like this, it feels like you’re getting told it’s our way or no way! [:p]
I think I agree with some breeders, maybe it’s not such a bad idea to jump ship [;)]
after a tip off [;)] I spoke to FIL this afternoon, he is a specialist agricultural contract solicitor with 40 years experience under the belt, he has confirmed that by taking £60 off people they have entered into a contract to provide a service for that money, so therefore the BPA are breaking the law by not providing the services that the money paid for, simple [:(!]
Telling us after the fact is not legal at all, new contract terms should have been offered BEFORE taking money so that you can decide whether you take those new terms or not.
This is the email I sent to the BPA office, I will also add that in all of this mess I don’t blame breed reps who have a job that I don’t envy them in the slightest especially at the moment, and if I remember correctly here they do this for free and shouldn’t be taking abuse, but I don’t blame the office staff neither, well apart from the one who lied my account would be re-activated the second sent the DD form back, that one I can’t forget, not on to lie to get folks to return forms, anyhow this was my email…
”can you confirm what the yearly subscription covers as it’s very unclear on the BPA website just what it does cover especially the part where it says ” Additional registrations for sales or herd expansion and other pedigree forms may be charged”
this was the reply…
”I will forward your queries to our Chief Executive and will be back in touch in due course”
this of course means nobody seems to have any idea on this at all, can you imagine how many times they’re getting asked that a day!! and am getting the impression the CE may have gone on leave at the prospect of a lot of traditional breeders with pitchforks and torches in hand…[;)][:D]
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