This topic contains 46 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by Anonymous 13th April 2012 at 11:21 am.
13th February 2012 at 12:19 pm #10559
this is what Newark says
The use of the old paper AML2 forms is phased out as of 1st April 2012. Moves to this show must therefore be pre-notified via the new eAML2 system. Copies of the new Haulier Summary movement document, which must accompany pigs throughout the journey to the Show and their return journey to the premises of origin, may be obtained from the ‘eAML2’ system directly when pre-notifying the move online on http://www.eaml2.org.uk or alternatively, from the MLCSL Bureau Service, who will pre-notify the movement onto ‘eAML2’ on your behalf, and then send you the appropriate number of copies of the movement document to accompany the animals in transit. The MLCSL bureau can be contacted by phone on 0844 335 8400, fax 0247 669 2405 or email firstname.lastname@example.org. Please allow enough time to receive your documents through the post before the show.
Failure to comply with Primo 2011 and obtain a correct movement document could cause pigs to be detained at Newark Showground for a period of 21 days.
Any pigs that are sold, or are otherwise disposed of, or are not returning to premises of origin, must leave the show accompanied by a Haulier Summary movement document. The receiving keeper must then confirm receipt of the animals either online via ‘eAML2’ or to the MLCSL Bureau, within 3 days of the animals’ arrival at their premises.
Compliance with the terms of the General Licence for the movement of Pigs requires:
A. Either isolation of the pigs for 20 days after movement from the Show, in a Defra approved isolation facility, OR:
B. 20-day standstill on the movement of pigs from the premises of destination (other than movement of pigs for immediate slaughter). If being exported direct to another EU Member State, the equivalent certification in accordance with the appropriate Trade Directive in force at the time must be obtained from the Exports team at AHVLA Carlisle (01228 403600).
God its going to get messy, lots of people buy and sell pigs at shows. So it doesn’t bode well for this years season does it (remember hatfield last year), can’t imagine our little local shows will want pigs soon too much hassle!
Some of our more shall we say mature stewards can barely use a mobile phone let alonea computer. Yet without these people small local shows wouldn’t survive. As usual no input from the ‘real’ people who have to use thse systems.13th February 2012 at 8:55 pm #10560
The moves to abbatoir are fine. I know in advance that they are going and so can do a pre movement form. It is the moves when people come to buy a few weaners that seem to be a nightmare. I had to try to set up a move but the system could not find the destination premises. i then registered it with what I thought the name was and it said that the move could not take place as the AHVLA did not have matching information. Checked with the people buying and I had not inputed the correct company name but did not seem to be able to correct it. This was the day before the move and it was too late to phone the helpline. Needless to say that we used the old fashioned paper method for this move. What on earth will happen when these ar no longer available in April!!
The old paper system allowed the departture premises to fill in their bit and the destination premises to fill in their bit along with the haulier as most of these people collect them pigs themselves. The new system requires me to collect all of that information before hand and enter it all. Why can’t the new system allow both parties to enter the relevant part of the information? Would make it a lot more straightforward.
Georgina14th February 2012 at 12:28 pm #10561
Just out of curiosity has anyone seen anything on the Eaml’s in any of the smallholding magazines or the farmers weekly for that matter?
I had a look at both smallholding magazine websites and no mention on the homepages, now this legislation will affect ALL pig keepers in the next two months and i don’t think its been mentioned widely enough, Countryfile would be the obvious place! Adam keeps pigs so he’s gonna have to use it too (or one of his minions!).
Lots of people don’t even know about it, people who came to see weaners at weekend were aghast about it! Red tape gorn mad was the comment!
Oh its going to be such good fun come April! NOT!14th February 2012 at 7:28 pm #10562
well the first time we moved one to abbatoir the abbatoir came up on the site no problem, the second time apparently the place wasn’t registered, even though had done a movement to it previously….right farce!
The vets was registered too…then wasn’t – then was! [:p]
far simpler would have been to have a movement form with the relevant abbatoir details on if needed, or better still just left a system that’s worked for years alone…..! [:p]
that’s the problem isn’t it, if you have no internet then you have to phone to book your movement, the office for this is only open Mon-Fri 9-5, you need the haulier summary’s off them so have to wait for them to be sent…how do you do that if the moving date is the next day, they aren’t supposed to move without those summary’s for the transporter/destination!
The annoying part is it doesn’t reduce paperwork, you still have it and still have to have it, oh yes sorry…it’s reduced by two carbon copies….[;)]
*Not a fan – Derbyshire*16th February 2012 at 8:12 am #10566
According to Orange online charges page, calls from my mobile to the 0844 number cost 76p per minute. How long would a movement to show, and return, take to set up ? So what would that cost?
So glad I’m online28th February 2012 at 5:48 pm #10590
i have a farm to farm to do for thursday. The sow came to me on paper which i sent off to Stoneleigh. The owner has informed me that she is now signed up for eaml. Do i do the paperwork as departing holding or does she as transporting holding? or do we both do it.
Bit confused. help
thanks in advance28th February 2012 at 5:59 pm #10591
Any previous moves make no difference, so if you are doing a move on Thursday you have the following options
a) Do it as before on paper, the buyer can send the form to stonleigh and do entry in her record book. (applies up to March 31st)
b) Do an electronic entry. You as “off-holding” (holding from which the animals are going off) need to print a copy to give the buyer for the journey – although legally you can hand write one – which is why we are recommending that people print some blank pro-forma’s from the BPEX site in case your printer breaks down (or just runs out of ink). She then keeps the paper record for 6 months as transporter, but can confirm the move on-line (or telephone or wite to Stoneleigh). You should confirm the move on-line within 24 hours – this is NOT a legal requirement, but the idiots who invented this system didn’t think it through, so ommited to enact confirming changes into law, and then changed their mind to make everyone confirm not just those with changes. anyway confirm and job done.
29th February 2012 at 9:00 am #10592
many thanks i’ll have a bash electronically and see how it goes. 
have tried but cannot find farm going to even though owner says they have registered Grrrrrrrrrrrrr!
Will try later after dinner29th February 2012 at 7:37 pm #10595
Give it a go Mandy! I used it for the first time a few weeks ago, a few teething problems but go a quick reply via email from the eaml people and went without a hitch this week.
Allison1st March 2012 at 9:27 am #10596
Well had a go this morning and have managed to print a haulier sheet off however, the sow isn’t mine but theres no provision in herdmark to enter the owners herdmark it says you can change it in your site details but then the herdmark would be down as mine which it isn’t! also it has me as owner and i’m not this is a B&B sow i’m moving back to her owner, also the owner has no idea which vehicle she’s coming in as a friend may have to bring her so i had to make up a reg!
I’m afraid that this system is not fit for purpose[}:)][:(!][V]
Just to add a note to this i have been back on and it always lists me as owner whatever i put in there needs to be an option to change here. Even on the print out blank ? templates it lists me as owner whats the point of it saying owner if different to keeper and you can’t flamin well change it! OMG i dread April 1st with a deep feeling of forboding.1st March 2012 at 11:42 am #10597
Have now spoke to Stoneleigh re incorrect details apparently if you want to change anything on an EAML you have to do it prior in your account(details) section so this means knowing everything about where your pig(s) are going, you enter it all in your account details and then when you actually go to do the movement it will let you choose that info from the drop down boxes!
While i was on i also gave them an ear full about the use of the word feedback it needs changing to confirming move and the lady did say that change was in hand, i also told her that i thought they had not really consulted the people who were going to use this system and made her very aware that the BPA WAS NOT the voice of the owners of small herds and that infact the majority of small pigkeepers are not members of the BPA. Poor girl she picked a bad day to pick up the phone as i am not in the best of humours today.[}:)] if they don’t come for that flamin pig this afternoon and i’ve been thro all this i’ll…………explode![:(!]
Ps forgot to say that if use glasses to read you MUST have them to read printed AML the typeface is very small.1st March 2012 at 6:01 pm #10598
More good feedback (that is from you not confirmation!).
I have been in extensive email correspondence with Defra (gave up with BPEX as the project manager just kept telling me she was only doing what Defra told her to), and they now understand the difference between PRIMO and WATO – the first being required, the second only in some cases and in all cases not on -line. In effect you are all entering loads of info that is not required. You may be happy with that, but it should be clear to you from the site what is required, and what is optional info. It has improved, but is still far from satisfactory, and I continue to press them to get the site accurate.
It is still a complete mystery to me why both the NPA and the BPA initiated this change, without telling their members and to the detriment of both smallholders and the large scale guys who will be equal victims of any non-compliance which will only increase under this scheme.
14th March 2012 at 8:22 pm #10612
& it is turning into a bigger joke to me!!!!! [:D]
Set up a farm to farm movement last night to someone who has taken alot of weaners off me over the past few years to find that when I printed off the movement form I ALSO ended up printing out an official letter TO THE BUYER saying that they have NO RECORD of him owning pigs!
If this is the case WHY & HOW would he have a herd mark? HOW & WHY would he be registered on Eaml & WHY was he not contacted FROM head office to query this as the last movement was at the end of Jan, WHICH I did via Eaml! HOW & WHY has he got away with buying pigs from me in the past? HOW & WHY can he sell the meat to a butcher he supply’s IF he isn’t registered to own pigs?
Instead, it was left to ME to hand over the letter telling him to ‘register’ within 30 days or face a £5000 fine!
WHY SHOULD WE HAVE TO WASTE OUR PAPER, INK & have this to deal with too???
I felt GREAT handing him THAT letter too……..NOT!!!!!!!!!15th March 2012 at 6:48 pm #10613
Was he registered when you did the January move? The move can be to someone who hasn’t registered, you put in some details, and the letter comes up. It should be much politer now (I re-wrote it for AH, as like you I was so furious when I saw it. You should have seen what it did say, unless they have reverted).
Is the January move showing as complete in your system? If not, then if you do a second move it probably still hasn’t tied up the first.
This new system is going to create lots of this sort of stuff. I am still in correspondance with AH on lots of aspects of this new system, the BPA seemed not to have done anything to support smallholders in making this work.
If you want to email me some further details, it would help me to either tell you why, but equally important if it is wrong, collect info to take to AH to get the system better email@example.com
15th March 2012 at 7:47 pm #10617
Yep, he was registered electronically in Jan, when I put his herd number & CPH in he came up straight away. I really couldn’t belive it when this letter popped out for exactly the same details as previous moves. [;)]
I really hope the system is going to be abit more reliable by the end of this month as I reckon I could be bald in a few weeks if I end up pulling much more hair out over this. [:D]
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